“Public Act 165 of 2003, known as the Driver Responsibility Law, took effect October 1, 2003. This law was amended by Public Act 52 of 2004 and Public Act 460 of 2008.”
(mcl Section 257.732a)
So says the Michigan Government website dedicated to the Michigan Driver’s Responsibility Law under the heading ‘What is Driver Responsibility‘. They go on to say:
Its purpose is to encourage traffic safety by deterring potentially dangerous driving behavior. Other states, including New Jersey and Texas, have implemented similar laws.
The reality is that the MDRL is a controversial law that has been subject of considerable debate since it’s enactment, including recent legislation aimed at eliminating many of the fees. (most recently, Senate Bill 166 dubbed ‘repeal the “Bad Driver” Tax” put forward by Sen. Bruce Caswell (R) - it is currently stalled in committee)
The alleged purpose of the law is to act as a ‘deterrent’ to various forms of bad driving and other violations such as drunk driving or not having the proper insurance. The alleged justification for the fees is to ‘cover the [additional] costs’ related to such violations and costs ‘to Society’ related to the offenses or the people committing them.
Many of the voices speaking out against this law point out that it targets the poor, seems to constitute a ‘double jeopardy‘ violation (in that the fees are only assessed after and in addition to the fines of a specific violations), and aren’t even meeting the original goal of revenue collection. (49% of the fees have not even been collected [1]) There are even questions as to whether or not people of low incomes facing bankruptcy may still be held responsible for payment of the fees.
Double Jeopardy and the Michigan Court of Appeals
The issue of ‘double jeopardy’ has already been addressed in the Michigan Court of Appeals in case Docket No. 264103, Todd Dawson v. Michigan Secretary of State and Department of Treasury. In that case, the plaintiff argued against the statute on three grounds; the first involving violation of the ‘double jeopardy’ clauses of both the United States and State of Michigan Constitutions, violations of ‘equal protection’ clause of the 14th amendment to the Bill of Rights, and on violation of the ‘uniformity of taxation‘ clause under Michigan law.
The court found that since the the fees were ‘civil’ in nature and since the defendant did not establish they were ‘invalid’ in nature that they did not constitute a violation of either State or Federal protections against double jeopardy — which applies to criminal prosecutions and punishments. Further, since the fees were assessed allegedly to cover the additional ‘cost to society’ resulting from specific acts, they could not be deemed as violations of equal protection or uniformity of taxation.
Although it should be obvious by anyone reading their ruling that this almost seems ‘contrived’ and leaves a sour taste in your mouth, the ruling appears to be consistent with the law. (What is distasteful is that it appears this may have been considered by the lawmakers who supported the law in the first place and thus constitutes an ‘end run’ around these very Constitutional protections)
The plaintiff attorneys in the Dawson case filed an appeal but the motion for appeal was denied.
Due Process
One of the issues that was not addressed by the Dawson case was the matter of ‘due process‘. The fifth and fourteenth amendments to the US Constitution protect a citizen’s right to have their day in court, to face their accusers, not not be required to testify against themselves and to be able to address any charges levied against them in a fair and reasonable manner. This right was not only addressed in the original 10 amendments but was clarified further in the 14th after these rights were denied to citizens such as slaves and Native Americans.
People assessed these Driver Responsibility Fee have no means of appeal. The Michigan DRL website says as much in their list of Frequently Asked Questions:
Can I appeal the suspension?
No. In accordance with MCL 257.322 and 257.323, there is no hardship appeal of the Driver Responsibility fee or Driver Responsibility suspension.
(It lists no other comments on appeal for other ‘non-hardship’ related reasons.)
Furthermore, the Michigan law [mcl 257.907(4)] already addresses the ability of the district courts to assess both fines and additional fees for costs related to these offenses, stating:
“the judge or district court magistrate shall summarily tax and determine the costs of the action, which are not limited to the costs taxable in ordinary civil actions, and may include all expenses, direct and indirect, to which the plaintiff has been put in connection with the civil infraction, up to the entry of judgment*.”
*this section further limits such additional charges for costs to a maximum of $100. (MDRL fees can be up to $1000 assessed for two years in a row for a total maximum of up to $2000, 20 times as much)
The end result is that the views of the Appeals Court that “the Legislature intended to impose a civil, and not a criminal, penalty” would seem to suggest that the ‘civil’ fee is being treated as separate and distinct from the legal action — except to the extent that the one is incurred as a result of the other. Since this fee is assessed not through the criminal ruling of the court, and since there is no avenue to challenge or appeal it’s being levied then it would seem to be akin to a Bill of Attender (forbidden by Article I, section 9 of the US Constitution) and a clear violation of the principles of due process.
Why should I care?
Of course, if you don’t get stopped for traffic violations and keep your insurance coverage current, you will likely never experience one of these fees. So why should you give a damn about having it repealed? Among other things, the same types of arguments in regards to ‘due process’ violations for flat fees are being addressed regarding other types of legislation.
Just some examples of these include the national healthcare reform mandatory requirement under President Obama’s Comprehensive Health Reform package and things such as windfall profit taxes and retroactive penalties on corporate bonuses for executives.
[1] Huron Daily Tribune (michigansthumb.com) May 10, 2011
Fees Exist Beyond what’s paid at the Court House
“According to Caswell’s office, roughly $1.2 billion has been assessed in driver responsibility fees, but only about $626 million has been collected, which is a return [of] about 51 percent. As of January, nearly 2.5 million people have had their license suspended.”
(I was going to post something else tonight, but moved it back a few days as this has become a more ‘pressing’ issue today – I’ll add a comment as to why below)
Additional information: Although there is no Michigan case law yet addressing ‘punitive fees’ or ‘punitive taxes’ (that I was able to find) involving violations of due process, the matter has been addressed on the US Court of Appeals level in the case of Grandeotto, Inc v. the City of Clarksburg. ( http://caselaw.findlaw.com/wv-supreme-court-of-appeals/1460163.html )
Ironically, the fees in this case entailed a ‘Fire safety’ fund fee assessed on businesses. (I say ‘ironically’ as the excess of the Michigan fee also goes to a Fire safety related fund)
Although the attorneys for the defendant failed to prove that the fines were unreasonable or invalid (and the court upheld the assessment) the court did state that the fee:
“violates the due process and equal protection clauses of the Fourteenth Amendment, and requested injunctive relief against the City to prevent future collection or assessment of the fees.”
Totally agree, this thing is Michigan State Mafia Legal Extortion!!!! Despicable, especially if you are not working, cannot find ANY kind of job here in Traverse City, and then on top of that all the other made up nonsense they make you pay for and do to fill other coffers, city, county, private and so on.
I am so over this NONSENSE, have been paying since 2005 and owe 340.00 right now. They need to GET RID OF THIS and return everyone’s money immediately!!!!
Just ran across your site, as I was so PO that they “DEFAULTED” on my payment plan because I forgot to have the money there in account for them to take ONE MFing time, little did I know, if I would not have called, they would have F**&&ing SUSPENDED my license AGAIN!!! Then, of course if I would have been stopped for something or other without KNOWING my license was suspended, WE ALL KNOW THE WHOLE MFING VICIOUS CYCLE STARTS AGAIN!!!!
Car impounded, jail, BLAH, BLAH, and all their other shit.
I am SOOO LIVID AND PISSSEEDDD OFFFFF!!!!!! THIS HAS GOT TO END!!!! WHERE DO I SIGN UP TO BE A VERY LOUD VOICE FOR THIS!!!!
I am 54, have had only 2 infractions my whole life and this is beyond SINISTER!!!! I do not EVEN WANT TO DRIVE ANYMORE FOR FEAR of doing least little thing wrong.
I also am having to pay this DRF. Last year I had to pay 100.00, this year they decided that I have to pay 250.00. The Sec of State said that I got another ticket between last year and now but I didn’t. I live off of SS and I have to make payments.
Ok there was my last ticket which cost me 130.00. Then my insurance went up by 200.00 for the ticket. now I have to pay this? why? Havn’t I given you enough already????? Don’t forget about your tags and reg. fees every year…… Driving is only for those who have money………
So I have a lead foot I have never hurt anyone and I am a good driver other than some speeding. This law is not fair.
pissed off is and under statement. i just read this senator statement. if there in a stall then maybe we the people should stall there payment or should i say fraud, double dippin, can’t fix the budget, so they just make another bullshit fee, tax. even better we can stall there salary that they get pd for. If this is civil as they say, then by law they can not steal, or hold someones license, last time i checked thats criminal extortion. where do they learn this stuff, bernie maddofff university. I hope that this senator and other will shut this down. maybe this why nothing gets fixed in our congress, senate, white house, dems and repubs can,t get along like children……………………………………………………………………………………………….
My 21 year old son, lost his roommate(Now Homeless), trying to go back to college and cant find a job, but is still expected to pay his fines and $150.00 a month, he is sleeping on family members couchs and we are all financially exhausted ourselves, half of my family have lost their jobs in Michigan, and my son CANNOT find one. He is even trying to get a job in food service, anything. The state has threatened him, that he wont be able to drive for years and won’t qualify him to get his license , even if his tickets are paid, and if he defaults on the $150.00 a month payments. He is getting food assistance from the state. This driver responsibility fee payments are RIDICULOUSLY high and I can’t beleive they expect a young man who wants to go to college and do the right thing be forced to live in with such odds against him. Please help these young people.
Sincerely, Frustrated Mom
As an aside to that, the state does seem to be incredibly flexible on payment plans to pay this off. (have him contact the state treasury)
This of course does not apologize for the fact that they require/expect payment without the appropriate due process. I am assuming that if he has to pay $150 a month that his total fine is one of the maximum or near maximum amounts and thus relates to one of the stronger offenses such as a DUI or wreckless driving?
I don’t even live in Michigan anymore, declared bankruptcy in 2007, but can’t get a license in my new homestate because Michigan says I owe them $2500 in driver responsibilities fees. Which are from: no insurance & driving on a suspended license (multiple times).
Of course who cares if I had to drive 45 minutes for a $10 an hour job that barely covered my rent at the time. So how could I afford to not drive?? I refuse to pay the state.
GOOD FOR YOU.MY GRANDSONS OWE LOTS MORE AND THEY CAN’T AFFORD TO PAY EITHER.KEEP DRIVING ANYWAY.LET THEM LOCK YOU UP AND LET THE TAX PAYERS PAY FOR YOUR KEEP.THEY ARE ASS–LES ALL THOSE IN LANSING WHO GOES ALONG WITH THIS LAW.
Unfortuantely though, most jails (and I’m not sure if MI does this, but I know Toledo, OH does- I live on the border) now adays actually charge YOU to keep YOU in jail. a friend of mine was taken to court over something stupid, put in jail, and given a bill for his stay when he was released. It’s just another way that the state is raping the poor in order to generate more income- sound familiar? it should.
either way, I’m about to give in and pay these jerks their money, even though I don’t have it. maybe I’ll spring for a bottle of lube to mail them along w the check and include a note that they can feel free to send it back to me next time they decide to give me another ridiculous fee for tickets I got in a totally different state- just to lessen the friction. 
or, I suppose I could follow my dad’s lead and wipe my a$$ w the check I send them. hope they had fun cashing that. 
maybe you all should follow his lead as well. maybe then they’d quit handing these out.
$2500 is that it? they say that I owe them $ 17,000. thats like $700 a month payment plan.
Of course NO ONE wants to pay them, but here is what they will do if you DO NOT, they will come after your bank account, garnish, place a levy, or alll sorts of embarrassing things…. I also owe them for ILLEGAL taxes taken on my UI, 379.00 there just is not a big enough group of us to SHUT THEM DOWN, and I am 54, do not care to be in one of their jails for protesting…..and THEN, you HAVE TO PAY TO BE IN THEIR JAIL ALSO……
Dear Ladies and Gentlemen
This state has just turned pure evil. If what they say is true” what comes around goes around” the state of MI has one hell of a payback coming.
I’d like to thank TheWild Webster for this article. It’s one of the most matter-of-fact looks at this reprehensible law that I’ve seen. While I didn’t know the legal particulars (violations of due process, double jeopardy, bills of attainder), I do know it Feels like double jeopardy, as I’m one of the many financially challenged folks who’ve landed in the trap. While I admit to having made some serious mistakes (a couple DUI’s), the Driving on a Suspended wouldn’t have occurred if I hadn’t had the draconian fees to pay off. I hear alot of ‘If you Can’t do the Time, Don’t do the Crime’, type responses from people, but the funny thing is, I believe in consequences, and have dealt with all of my legal obligations in a responsible manner…except I just couldn’t afford to pay the extra, extra, extra fines. I think it’s hilarious (in a painful way) that they can claim it’s ‘civil’ in nature, even though it results from a criminal proceeding. I mean, cmon, if you want stiffer penalties for certain crimes, make the sentences harsher. Basically, the law makes criminals out of people who can’t afford the fees and then keeps them there as cash cows. Afterall, in this day and age, who can really expect to keep a job or attend school, or even just live, without transportation? You can’t rely on others for that. And so many people take the risk of getting those DWSL and Lack of Insurance charges. It really is an undue burden on most of the people who’ve been hit with it. One of the things I did found while reading up on this law was that according to the U.S. Constitution, a person may not be punished by anyone other than a judge or magistrate, and that no further punishments may be levied by any parties once a judge has passed his/her sentence. And it is, quite clearly, an additional punishment. Legal mumbo jumbo can’t change that fact. The fact that even the Senate review on the law stated it hasn’t met it’s financial expectations and has, in fact, increased the rate of certain crimes, goes to show it’s a law that needs to go away, forever. With an apology and a refund check. South Carolina (I believe it was that state) repealed it’s version of the law within a year or so of it’s introduction. Michigan voters should do the same. Thanks again, Webster.
Just as a quick aside, I looked into getting a little 50cc scooter, so that I can keep getting to work and my other obligations (in order to keep paying), but the State of Michigan says that people whose licenses have been suspended or revoked cannot even get a moped license for a dinky little 50cc bicycle with a motor. Harsh! I can’t wait to get out from under this and get out of this slimy state.
SOME OF THOSE IN LANSING DON’T GIVE A SHIT IF YOU GET TO WORK OR NOT.THAT’S WHY NO ONE HAS ASKED THAT THIS BILL BE REPEALED IN IT’S ENTIRETY.
Hello Folks,
Well, the freaking unthinkable has happened to my husband, he is 57 and was caught speeding, 2/10 of a mile from home and got it for a dui also. The state boys got him, left the car on the side of the road, delivered me his wallet, keys and insurance info. They took him to Leelanau county jail and he was released the following day. Court date is this coming Friday. I am just SICK!!!!! To have to go thru all this shit again. This is his first DUI here, He had some in CA long ago. Is that going to matter?? I have read a little bit about the SR22 or whatever that is, do not know what he blew, and we are in so much debt now, this is going to severely cripple us no matter how you look at it. Cash cows for sure in this state, even if we could get out of here, with what money and what job for people our age. I am sure his license will be suspended and I will have to drive him everywhere. He has that temporary paper they gave him until court on Friday. Anyone have an experience they care to comment on (I mean just recently) just so I know what to expect……..probably the worst. Like others have said, if you lose your employment, then WTF!!!!!! Thanks again for your site!!!!!
Those are some really bored ass cops. Walking distance from home is kinda a silly place to pop someone for DUI – well unless they are driving through someone’s living room at the time.
Hi Webster,
Yes, they are totally bored, this is a COUNTY HIGHWAY, last time I checked, M-22, what are state boys doing hiding in the bushes…….OMG that is just beyond absurd……this place is sure not what I remember it to be growing up as a kid. Makes me VERY SAD to even be from here. And, NO, if he was driving thru someones living room, I am sure they would not have left the car on the road. That is still very perplexing to me, I thought all cops take your car to the impound, you know, so everyone of THEM can make more $$$$ off your bad situation.
Thanks again Webster, I have been reviewing some case history up here in Leelanau, does not matter it seems who the judge is, they all have the same pre-disposition as to what is going to happen. Proscecutor is Hubbuel, have not checked his record to convictions versus even letting someone off with maybe a fine and or community service. They do not care if you are GD 85 up here…by dammit you are going to pay, pay, do all their court ordered shit, oh, and keep your employment if you can…..not at our age, I just want to get in Lake MI and quietly leave, if you know what I mean…..just can’t suffer anymore of their fees, fines, whatever!!!!!
In early America there are examples of the citizens not putting up with oppressive laws. Some examples exist of lawmakers being tarred and feathered, beaten and a few times out and out killed for creating laws that create such a burden for the general population. The times have evolved that the lawmakers feel that they can defecate into a bag and the citizens will declare the seething pile to be the “Second Coming”. Either Virginia or West Virginia applied pressure to their lawmakers to rescind their version of D.R.F.
The lawmakers make laws like this because they feel safe in doing so. Their personal safety deserves to be stripped from them and many indignities heaped upon them and their family members. My thought is that I would like to know the names of all those who enacted this monstrous burden and make it so they do not have one moment of peace. I would stand outside their houses with protest signs and follow them where ever they go with a steady stream of invectives directed toward them and their family members for putting this burden on the people. I would encourage people to harass every member of those lawmakers family up to their fifth cousins. Not giving them one moment of peace until this travesty of a law is rescinded with refunds to all who had suffer paying it.
I don’t think it need be that extreme. The most obvious course is to re-challenge the law based on due process as I mentioned above. Of course, there is always passive resistance as well. Require them to exercise the use for force to enforce the law then sue the piss out of them.
And the other thing in regard to BTE’s comment, I just had a conversation with a colleague, discussing a civil revolution, people are TOO SCARED to really GET OUT THERE, especially our age, you know they would throw your azz in jail, civil disobedience and all the shit they could charge you with. THEY are preparing for MARTIAL LAW if you know what I mean. Check out Alex Jones, Prison Planet, Washington Watch Bill 589, (lots of good links) AlterNet, Alternative News, and you’ll discover a common thread, people my age (mid-50′s) we see the writing on the wall. If the banks in Europe fail, the dollar here is worth nothing, as it is only worth .40 right now. We live in very disheartening times indeed. The youth have NO CLUE what is happening, and how the rug will be pulled out from all of us in the near future. Thus, a growing number of dissidents among us, I wonder how long it will take for us to say, “ENOUGH OF YOUR BULLSHIT” and really DO SOMETHING!!! Strenth in numbers, my friend also said, and I believe the same, we all need GUNS, VERY BIG SECURITY around where you live and property, be ready to DEFEND you, yourself and others, and lots of food stockage or go in with others, which is what I will have to do, as it is just myself and hub. Wanted to join a community farm/garden co-op but they want 4 to 500 right now, you get a side of beef and vegetables, fruit, honey, eggs, etc., but who has 500, not us. To busy paying the state disrepair, MI. Who would of thought it would come to this, but as we know, this has been in the works since long ago, look up Prescott Bush’s ties to the NAZI regime, and the NWO, Iluminati, oh, and here is another good site, about the FNing FEMA camps, “educateyourself”, check it out, just saying, well I had my rant, will keep all up to date on hub’s outcome. Not looking like anything right now, THEY set aside pre-lim hearing, as THEY are still trying to find something on him in CA. WTH, they already did their NCIS search, what’s next, invent something out of thin air, his last dui was in 2001, so therefore, if they can’t find anything it will revert back to DUI first. Last appearance, Nov 3rd, and the PA said he needed more time for “good cause”!!!! My azzzzz, meanwhile, hub has to blow 2x a day and get this, 4 urine a month with months that have 30 days, and 5x if the month has 31 days. HIGHWAY ROBBERY to the HILT! Take care comrades!!! And thank you again for this site Webster!!!!
Wild Webster, I know that to read what I posted is very painful and now quite an alien concept to those who choose to read all of my thoughts. However, if such encroachments to our freedoms and rights evolves into being routine and follows closely behind a condescending dismissal of those objecting to the oppression, then we have become Russia during the twenties. We are all quite figuratively frogs in the steadily heating water. We are unaware that we are being boiled to death. Our society has become compartmentalized and arranged into an association of people who have forgotten that freedom is never free. Franklin said to the woman that the Delegation had created a “Republic”…if we can keep it. In the most abstruse sense one can hold forth the concept of armed revolt as a justified end result of and the just recompense to those who seek to cuckold the greater part of society. None of us should feel settled or content to blindly follow anything that comes down the Pike. There is time for dialog and also a time for something more than dialogue. Do just a bit of research and you will be shocked to discover the sequence of events that led to the Revolutionary war against England. The reasons piled up on one another until dialogue alone could not stand any chance of improving or changing things for the colonists. With the nature and structure of the Driver Responsibility Fee the same landscape and atmosphere exists and it would not take very much to have a negative event occur as a result of this Hegelian Dialectic we chance to call the Michigan Driver Responsibility Fee.
And our government isn’t lining people up to be shot for resisting yet. If they were, then we would have stopped hearing about the ‘occupy’ nuts weeks ago. There is a time for response of force, and there is a time for passive resistance. Most people aren’t even ready for the latter yet, but it is by far not time for the first until you have exercised the moral act of resisting tyranny first.
OMGosh, BTE, do you read at any of the sites I mentioned, you are very WELL spoken……love to read what you write…. Perci
Ah, Mr. Webster, people in my little community are getting ready no matter what!! I am waiting for a friend to get here, he is bringing me some guns to look at, there are many home invasions, as you well know this a place where a lot of folks only come here for the summer. I am pretty well protected on the water, but there are just gangs of people looking for anything they can get. Sad commentary on society!
Perci 57
I remember being in Michigan and living just a bit outside of the city of Detroit and listening to people like the late and great Marc Scott and his tag line, ” I love my country, but I fear my government.” God has blessed me and I now live and work in Hawaii, but am not far removed from the sentiment of being in fear from not only any actual governmental abuse, but the possibility that it might befall any of us at anytime and none of us would have to do anything to merit such suffering.
With the corpus of the federal laws as they exist now Wild Webster is absolutely right in outwardly saying that “ANYTHING” can and will be used by the Federal government as evidence of “Terroristic Threat” against the government, and could draw a sentence with a maximum of Life in prison. Of course the federal government has made it all a bit too convenient to bring such matters into a F.I.S.A. court located just a few blocks from the rabbit hole. Where normal rules of law do not apply. Just us posting with the limited exchange afforded us here could be used a a major hinge point to draw all of us into a prison sentence for conspiring against the government.
Just remember read and listen to everything. Exercise good judgment and be ever vigilant
I flat out refuse to pay these driver reponsibility fees. I already paid a court fine they are not entitled to anymore legally. They took my license and I countered by building and driving an electric bike…. sorry michigan, federal law trumps you on that! I owe in excess of $5000 according to the state and haven’t to date given them one penny. They threatened my income with garnishing my wages but I got them there too. I am on disability and my income is federally protected. I might not be able to legally drive but I found an acceptable way to cope and think of the fortune I save on dmv fees, gas, insurance, and all the other bs you need to have a car. In the end I am the one laughing at michigan and I hope others join me in my rebellion. DOWN WITH MICHIGAN POLITICIANS!!!!
hello i dont understand they call it driver responsibility fees but your ticket is the responsibility you have to pay that you in the first place , when you break down the ticket the state gets a portion of that fine (ticket). but any way i owed detoit 3,400 which i payed
turned around i owed the state 2,400 now i payed it down to 500 now im getting letters saying i owe 150 (reinstatement) last month and now today i get another letter saying i owe another 125 for reinstatement, and in march they say another 150how they getting these’s figger’s ? even tho i told the state to add my reinstatement fee when i first start making payments but not i owe seems to be going up (1,000) dollars and this is not even my second year repeated fee’s i have to pay
The claim is that the drivers who commit the offenses in question ‘statistically’ cost the system more than drivers who don’t. But as I mention in my post, there is already a means in the law to assess additional fees at the time of your hearing. Additional fees that would be subject to due process vetting in the context of that hearing. (i.e. you could challenge them or ask for them to be enumerated specific to your circumstances, etc.)
As it stands now, there is no appeal process for this ‘fee’ and it constitutes a clear violation of due process.
fin a
If there is any legal action I can take against this, please let me know. I am disabled on a fixed income. I haven’t had my license in over 6 years, I have 2 kids and my fiance is diabetic. I can’t support myself without being able to work.
That’s a question for a lawyer, not me. I haven’t had as much time to sit down with at as I would like, but I am equally curious in an answer to that question. I solicited a few attorneys back at the time of that post but I was also on limited income at the time so I was trying to find some who might be interested in working either pro-bono or at reduced rate due to the class action potentiality of winning such a suit.
i live in ohio never in mich i got a ticket in mich and now i got to pay this tax i think that is bs
Hello Folks,
The worst has happened here in Traverse City MI. My hubs was in the effed up “Sobriety Court” program for 8 effing months and in the time span of less than 2 weeks he got 2 probation violations. WTF!!!!!!! One was because he had a “dilute”, of course no MFing way to prove that he was not trying to hide something, ’cause THEY do not give a flying eff. Then, he was to start another one of their bullshit programs, it only meets on Monday nites, we both are over 55, had bronchitis, he explained this to the program people and they said come on May 21. Do not come here SICK, but the PO said he missed the first session and that was that!!!!!
We had to be in court yesterday, for the probation violations, talked to the attorney for over an hour before court, it was decided he GET OUT of GD SOBRIETY COURT, because who is to say that another GD “DILUTE” would not come up, and take his chances in Circuit Court, where we knew he would have to serve at least 45 days with work release. Mind you, he just had rotor cuff surgery, in January, and they would not let him have any pain meds to properly recover. We have been living very carefully on 350 a week from Workmans Comp, yes figure that!!!! And paying for all their bull too~~~ He was just getting ready to go back to work, and it was worked out with his boss that he would get work release while he had to do the fuucccking jail. Which was supposed to start in July, as the attorney said he could get the Circuit court hearing postponed until then. Well, yesterday at the probation violation hearing, (the attorney had REASSURED US he would not be going to jail ) the coccksuckkkking judge, said he be remanded back to Leelanau County jail, NO BOND!!!!!!!! WTF WTF WTF, NO BOND, the asshat judge said “well OTHER people have RUN AWAY!!!!! I don’t care about other fucckkkkkking people, and where is my hubs running to as he has NOTHING!!!!!!
I am beside myself, no family and if they keep him until Circuit Court hearing, which would be May 30th,well you can see how fast everything will fall apart for me. All we have is each other, but I am telling you what, I will not be able to make it, am not going in “the street” no family, his are all dead and mine are in other kinds of dire straits. There will be BLOOD on their hands, as I will choose my way out of a life not worth living, I would rather die fighting for something, then living in their cruel fucked up club. I made complaints on the Judge, PO, called the news, but guess what, I am the only one turns out, that EVER made a complaint on the PO!!!!! It will do no good, and meanwhile, countless people are RAILROADED every damn day. !It is SHEAR TERROR, EXHAUSTING, AGONIZING, how is one to feel good about anything, SO NOW WHAT????? THE FUCKKKING 8 months he did on SOBRIETY court count for NOTHING!!!!! I am ASHAMED to be from Michigan, the attorney was SHOCKED AS HELL, as the judge informed him from the bench that “ah, oh, this is NEW POLICY, NO BOND!!!!!!
I TRUST NONE OF THEM!!!!!!! We have no minutes on our phones, because of course we had to pay, pay, pay all their shit!!!! Oh, and let me not forget about the damn state driver fees. Forget it, WE ARE NOT PAYING IT!!!!! I am sooo SCARED out of my mind!!!!! Can’t eat, sleep, constant WORRY!!!!! I am sure there are more things I am forgetting, but just wanted to let you know the latest, it is not good not matter how you look at it. Supposed to talk to the attorney today at 4 p.m. to see if the prosecuting attorney up in Leelanau will grant my husband PR bond. This is beyond FUUUCCCKKKKED UP PEOPLE!!!!! Will let you know what happpens….
I was stopped 2 weeks ago for a routine traffic stop and the officer informed me my driver’s license was expired. I ordinarily renew online after getting my reminder, but didn’t get a reminder this time around. I am sick about this. I am unemployed (not drawing benefits, either) and barely scraping by. My husband is under-employed. For the past 4 years, we’ve had to borrow from our retirement fund just to pay our bills, then the IRS charges us extra for doing that. NOW I get this ticket with a $160 fine PLUS $150 Driver Responsibility Fee that I will also have to pay next year. This is so wrong. I am a responsible person and this was a mere oversight, not criminal intent. I’ve never had a traffic ticket, I follow the rules. And I’m still getting screwed by the state of Michigan.
To all the readers and commenters: You might want to pay especially close attention to the recent ruling by the Supreme Court on the Affordable Care Act as I eluded to at the end of the article. Many of the arguments in the majority opinion are directly related to the nature of the Michigan Driver’s Responsibility Fee and punitive taxes in general as I suggested in the article.
Although it will remain to be seen whether or not a case challenging Obamacare on ‘unapportionment’ and/or due process grounds is or will be pending, I would not doubt it as a possibility. In fact, that possibility is the only thing that may lend any sense to Chief Justice Robert’s flip-flop on this issue. It his said his primary concern in doing so was not to ‘legislate from the bench’ and to maintain ‘judicial restraint’. A judge is not supposed to ‘assume’ arguments that are not presented, and if no habeas corpus/due-process or apportionment arguments were made in testimony (due to the fact this was originally framed as ‘not a tax’) then no ruling can or should be made on apportionment or due-process grounds.
But the nature of some of the statements in the majority opinion could be interpreted as a direct invitation to either an apportioned tax or a habeas corpus challenge against such taxes. Stay tuned, this may yet be subject to challenges thanks to the Big ’0′ himself.
Is there any atty’s out there ready to challenge this yet? Im disabled raising a son and can no way afford the $5,000 driver responsibility fee..I barely paid off my court fines to get off probation. These 2 dui’s happended in Sept. and Nov. of 2005…The state says I cant even have a vehicle registered in my name…my son is now 15 and has a driving permit but he cant get any drive time required in from seg. 1 to seg. 2 because I cant even register a car FOR HIM TO DRIVE. I want to fight this thing
Is there any atty’s willing to fight this right now? I havnt paid these assholes a dime yet but its effecting my son as I cant even get a car registered in my name for him to get his drivers ed practice time in between segments. Im disabled and cant drive..but I want to fight this…any info. yet since July 2nds post?
I ran into medical issues right around the time of my first payment, as a result i defaulted. Now i am facing two charges of driving while suspended and another $2k.. I have tried to set up payment plans but am told every time that i can not and i have to pay my $2,500 in full. I was told this morning at court that the law changed and they are giving a “Second Chance” after a default(was told this by the prosecuting attorney). Of coarse I went right home to make the phone call and after a hour on the phone was told the same thing I am told every time, “Sir, you have to make your payment in full!”. Michigan needs to do something about this. I work and I will not stop driving to work. What do you want me to do Michigan, I could just join a good majority of the state and live off the system unemployed! Unfair, Unjust, Unconstitutional.
Hey, I just read our Michigan Constitutiona that sais it is a RIGHT to travel upon on highways,roads and etc, with a horse and buggy automobile and etc.Maybe all who has a driver responsibility fee imposed upon them needs to get this a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT STARTED ASAP.All it requires is a little research into the Mich. Constitution.This is granted by the Federal Constitution and by The Law of Nature it is Unconstitutional for the State to require us to be licesnse to travel.
Not only that is rule ruled that a License Fee is a tax.I don’t remember us voting to charge a tax for this supposedly fee that is imposed. I got all this information from the web search on our Michigan Constitution. type it in your search engine and do some research.
I’ve been forced to pay this shit for awhile myself, This fucking state is killing itself, by us the people not standing up for whats right, we just sit back and let these assholes bully us into paying ridiculous fines that arent even legally fines, its an additional tax they throw at us, i just got sent a letter saying i have to pay $200 for having over a certain amout of points for an accrued time, even after paying th stupid tax for those events once as it is, this i feel is double dipping, cant any of our bigtime lawyers stand up for us, or are we eventually gonna have to pay a fee eevry week or month for the amout of fucking air we breath, in this fuckin state, i cant wait to move the fuck out of Michigan, Rich get Richer, and we stay fuckin broke and without,
I dont plan on getting a drivers license ever again so I just ride my bike to work and back. But I was wondering if anyone has actually had the Secretary Of Treasury garnish their wages? I dont think they do. Most people want their license back so they pay it.
http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,4670,7-127–287239–rss,00.html
Some Driver Responsibility Fees end Oct. 1
SEPTEMBER 28, 2012
Secretary Johnson pushed for elimination of costly extra fees
MUSKEGON, Mich. – Secretary of State Ruth Johnson today praised the elimination, which she advocated for, of Driver Responsibility Fees for lesser driving offenses that goes into effect Monday.
Sec. of State Ms. Johnson is right in the same damn boat with the rest of those damn republicians.If she was a deceit compassionate person she would had asked that this entire bill be repealed.Or through out all the fees that all these youn people owe already.Starting Oct. 01,2012 is all good and all but what about the thousands of dollars that some of these people already owe? Repeal those fees.. would be a help to a lot of people.I DON’T HAVE A FEE THAT I OWE THE STATE.IF I DID I PROBABLY WOULDN’T PAY IT. I WOULD JUST DRIVE WITHOUT NO LICENSE.I WOULDN’T CARE AT THIS POINT.AND THEY WANT TO KNOW WHY NO ONE WANTS TO DO TRADING IN THIS STATE.TOO MANY DAMN STUPID LAWS.YOU CAN GO SOUTH AND DO BETTER THAN THIS.
Actually no matter if someone doesn’t be aware of after that its up to other visitors that they will help, so here it occurs.
We just started going through this mess and they are already threatening levies. My husband only just got sentenced on Oct 30th. We are appealing the case and we are broke. They don’t care. This whole situation has been corrupt since the night we got pulled over.
He was never read his miranda rights.
The cops have changed their story about why they pulled us over 7 times. One of the cops even purjured himself on the stand.
The state lab testified that they didn’t properly log the blood work.
The judge refused to let our expert testify.
We even have the video that shows my husband is not impaired.
They gave him jail time, charged 1680.00 in fines, work camp, impact weekend(even though he was shown to have no alcohol problem at all), one year probation, suspended license for a year,.
THIS WAS A FIRST OFFENSE.
My husband was in the marine corps and believes in his country, and this is how they repay him. He even had to be in jail on Veterans day.
Hi Dana, I was so sorry to hear about your husband being in Jail on such a day that honors vets.You should write a letter to your state senator and explain how they are suppose to be trying to help all vets, yet he is being thrown into jail.Look up your rep. on the mic. gov website. Goodluck
new info…the company who collects these fees is breaking the law in the way they do the debt collection. The only problem with this, is that apparently the laws that protect us from this are voided if it happens to be atraffic related debt.
Hello all Wild Webster Folk!
Well, I have much too say, my hubs is out, (if you want to look back at previous posts, he was sentenced on July 23) but as anyone who has read my comments, there is much to be learned. I want to tell you ALL about it, but it is going on after 12:30, and I have to be up to take him to pay the meffin tether that comes home after jail, 105.00 per week, thank you very much, mind you, I live in traverse city, and we have to go pay the effin thing at Leelanau another effin 40 minutes away, (as moved to a house webster, if you recall I was living on m-22) this is one of the landladys other places as she sold all those cottages, oh, p.s. her hubs just passed away on 10-17, how cray cray, she and her husband i am indebted to for life, how would anyone let you be 4K behind in rent?????? They love us, and we love them!
WELL< THEY KNOW THE GD SYSTEM, her sister got busted in FL, so no good all around. and the oh so nice some fucked up house where hubs had to stay for a month after jail, PAID FOR BY THE GD STATE SO PEOPLE THAT WORK THERE CAN HELP ALL THE ADDICTS<!!!! Addicts, my ass, total brainwashing…….hubs IS NOT AN ANYTHING BUT THIER CASH MUTHR FUCKING COW, and now all money I make, goes to that shit!!!!!! (Just to refresh your memory, His ticket was on October 6, 2011, he was in that stupid sobriety court, which started all problems after 8 months, this and any other of their gobbly gook nonsense is for the person to FAIL, FAIL unless you have at least 10K for a decent attorney who is not in cahouts with any one from the county or district.
I learned the hard way. I even had to have a homeless sale, no shit sherlock, then I got a job at a slave factory, 12 fucking hours a day, STANDING, HELLO PEOPLE, I come from and education of HR, and organization., that is another subject of slave wages paid here by the company that bought out Chrysler Damiler, there name is MAGNA, some of you south of me might know them, they pay a trifing 8.50 and hour to work 12 hours a day, in Benzonia, MODERN DAY SLAVE FACTORY, I could only do it a month and a half, cause I am six feet tall, 153 lbs and never, ever worked a line where someone told me, you have to do it or be fired. FUCK YOU, drive an hour to work at 4 a.m. to be there by 5 and do not leave until 6 :30 p.m and drive another hour home, 6 days a week, fuck you, then they started sunday shit, not even , out of here, how do i get food, do laundry, when I am falling asleep on the way home. I am soooo disgusted, cannot get ahead!!!! GET THAT MY FRIENDS< PAID FOR BY THE STATE OF MI!!!!!! Look it up if you do not believe me, ADDICTION TREATMENT CENTER OF TRAVERSE CITY MI, DATOSKEY HALL OR SOME BS and not being able TO EVEN LOOK FOR WORK!!! That's right, my friends, he could not do anything except live eat and breathe their nonsense.
Now, I found out, by calling Sec of State myself and letting him tell the person I was talking to, to let me do the talking. HE COULD OF HAD HIS RESTRICTED LICENSE BACK IN APRIL!!!!! ;yah, no shit MFufffffers. How would we have known, court was certaintly not going to tell, I have so much to inform all on every matter of this.
Let me be brief, they said, have him come in, to the Sec of State, get a MI ID, ( as License expired on his b-day while in jail) then get a print out of driver record, then take to MI STATE DEPT OF TREASURy (TREASON) and make payment arrangements with them, and then go back to Secretary of the State to get his restricted license.
THis is so much bs, i am telling you, i would leave here now if i had big bucks, hire a captain and sail forever…….TRAVERSE CITY MI TARGETS POOR AND YOUNG PEOPLE, also the ELDERLY….these idiots of brainwashing would not have jobs if it were not for the lies they create out rite. pardon my typos, i have wanted to write for a long time, this is just a general thing.
to the lady about the miranda rights, forget about it, they do not have to do anything. unless you are interrogated, then they have to. are you and hubs from mi, could his military unit help? Is he commisioned, or not = that can depend also. My hubs is also ex-mil. They will help if you have a good communication line going.
OH WEBSTER, this state is full of phonies left and right, if ya know what i mean, write back soon, I will be up untl 1;30 a.m. peace out, I really had to rant, and this is only a quarter of it. love to all here, know and feel you pain!
PERCI:)
My wife tried to make the payment on a seatbelt violation. The clerk at the desk said wait a couple of weeks and return because the ticket wasn’t in the system and was unable to apply the payment. She forgot about it until a cop pulled her over for driving on a suspended license. It was suspended for lack of payment and the $1,000 fee was assessed, along with a $250 fee to regain the license and some more fees for being stopped. She had no job, I was permanently laid-off. How are we (she) supposed get employed? Even fast-food require driver licenses for delivery or deposit runs. Yeah,.it really does sock-to the poor. By the way, the violation: the loaner car’s seatbelt was 3 inches too short to reach around her, as her car was being repaired.
I am suffering from the drivers rip-off-ability fee as well. I paid the first year and had no clue about the second year, This fee has caused undue hardship for many. I am looking into an out of state attorney to file a law suit. I beleive If enough people come together and prove the hardships that this law has created. we might be able to get somewhere.
Im not paying that shit, I dont even want my drivers license back, especially if its gonna cost hundreds of dollars. Nope they can take my state taxes every year but I wont contribute anything else.
I’ve been in court all day and cannot believe that I feel violated after leaving. My first DWLS ever and forget the $850 in fines to the city, the $1,000 to the state I also have to do 24 hours community service. How many fines do I have to pay for one ticket after not having a ticket for 14 years. I am totally distressed over this! I cannot believe this is a legal thing for the state to do…..if I would have robbed a bank I would have been given one sentence and did it and done but a traffic ticket you pay and pay and pay and pay and pay!! And in 2 years I might be done, maybe………..what can we do???? I am in whatever we have to do!!!!
Hi li I Sorry you had to spend the day in court going thrugh this.The court fined you all this other $800, community service work and etc. The state makes you pay the other, which has been challenged to no avail.There is no appeal to the state law.It was set up from the start this way. You can try contacting the ACLU(America Civil Liberty Union) and asking them what can be done, it’s free.And the next best thing is to try to unelect everyone who voted yes on this bill.Look it up under the Michigan.Gov, senate and house bills. Just type in Goggole Driver Resp. Law in Michigan it will pop up. Good luck and if I can be of help further down the road just email me. We really need this law overturned(REPEALED). JAN
I need you guys help. I got the driver responsibility fee which is 100 dollars for over 7 points, what do you guys think how long it should be continued? two years? three years? no limits? I don’t even know there is something like this fee otherwise the tickets. Actually I don’t need my license any more since I go back to my country, still I need to pay this fee? I am actually a poor person and no money, but I wanna come back to state someday, can I?
jAY, IF YOU DON’T NEED YOUR LICENSE, JUST DON’T PAY.bUT, IF YOU GOT THIS FINE AFTER OCTOBER 2012, YOU ONLY HAVE TO PAY FOR ONE YEAR THE LAW WAS CHANGED A LITTLE INSTEAD OF 2 YEARS. GO TO GOOGLE AND TYPE IN DRIVER RESP. LAW IN MICHIGAN AND IT WILL POP UP FOR YOU TO CHECK IT OUT. BUT, IF YOU ARE LEAVING THE COUNTRY YOU CAN JUST GET YOU SOME STATE ID, SINCE YOU DON’T DRIVE.